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This is a Coffee MUG Bulletin Board Archive File consisting of 101 messages. Category 7, Topic 3 - archived on 07/03/87. Contact CMUG on GEnie for info. =============================================================================== Topic 3 Date: Wed Nov 13, 1985 CMUG at 02:34 EST Sub: 800Kb Dual-Sided Floppy Drives Are the 800Kb really TWICE as fast as the old 400's, and how do they stack-up size-wise? Can a dual-sided floppy drive fit in the old Mac case? =============================================================================== Category 7, Topic 3 Message 1 Date: Tue Oct 22, 1985 MCBURNEY (Forwarded) Did I miss something? Are 800kb floppies available for the Mac commercially? If so, for how much? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 2 Date: Wed Oct 23, 1985 CMUG (Forwarded) All the drives are made by Sony ... Haba packages one for about $320 (mail-order) By my understanding, current 3 1/2" floppies (which must meet Sony standards) are compatible already, that the 'single-sided' tag is there only to sell more expensive 'double-sided'-tagged disks later on .. (but I COULD be wrong) - Brian ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 4 Date: Wed Oct 23, 1985 MCBURNEY (Forwarded) Well, no wonder I missed it. Having been one of the first to purchase Habedex I have tended to ignore all Habadex advertising ever sense. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 5 Date: Thu Oct 24, 1985 CMUG (Forwarded) You mean you DON'T have the HabaDialer attachment for Habadex??? (A Habadex demo is a good advertisement for the IBM RoundTable ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 6 Date: Wed Oct 30, 1985 RSCHNAPP (Forwarded) ...I haven't heard ANY good reports on the 800KB Haba drive yet. ...Russ ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 7 Date: Thu Oct 31, 1985 CMUG (Forwarded) huh. I can understand software, but how can Haba screw up a Sony drive? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 8 Mon Jan 27, 1986 MARTINS.MAC at 00:12 EST Apples 800k drive is now available in limityed supply for $499 ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 9 Tue Jan 28, 1986 TFERNANDEZ [Tom F.] at 01:11 CST The new drives seem to be twice as fast as the old. While mousing around on a Mac Plus, I loaded Write,Paint,Draw, and Terminal and was on the 3>desktop in 12 seconds. Quitting from the desktop took 2 seconds. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 10 Tue Jan 28, 1986 CORENZWIT [Dan] at 23:26 EST Some of that speedup is undoubtably due to things other than the 800Kb floppies. In particular, the Mac+ does a lot more caching than the Mac- did. This really helps a LOT in quitting from the desktop. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 11 Tue Feb 04, 1986 PAHINES at 22:18 EST The new drives DEFINITELY fit the old MAC, in fact APPLE requires you to buy one with the ROM upgrade. The 400K external drive will NOT read 800K formatted disks, you will get an"UNABLE TO READ THIS DISK, DO YOU WISH TO FORMAT IT". Say NO, if you dont want to lose you files. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 12 Mon May 05, 1986 CARNELIAN at 02:13 PDT What I want to know is-if you get the upgrade and the 800k internal drive,will you still be able to use your external 400k drive? I don't need two 800ks. Nor can I afford them. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 13 Mon May 05, 1986 CWYKOFF [Christine] at 04:23 PDT No problem.. mine is working fine. Have the 800K internal and the new ROMs (of course). Get the drive upgrade. Christine ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 14 Mon May 05, 1986 CMUG [Brian Ebarb] at 15:41 EDT .. just make certain you remember which disks are 400K and which are 800K! ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 15 Mon May 05, 1986 CWYKOFF [Christine] at 21:18 PDT It really is no problem as long as you keep the habit of reading Alert boxes. If you insert a 800K disk in the 400K drive... HFS is smart enough to recognize it, and gives you a dialog box telling you that you have inserted a double-sided disk. It DOES, however ask if you want to initialize. Just read the Dialog messages and you should not make the mistake of re-initializing the disk with all your Excel templates on it. This dialog boxes comes up with both the ROM and RAM based versions of HFS. Christine ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 16 Wed May 07, 1986 S.SATO at 23:15 CDT I've been trying to pass some software I've downloaded onto some friends. But, it doesn't seem that disks I've made on my MAC+ (formatted for 400K), can be read by their 512 or 128K MAC's. Is this a normal occurance to be expected with the 800K drive? Steve P.S. Just received the Mirror Technology 800K drive I ordered at the Chicago MacExpo. It's solid and quiet, seems to work just fine with the MAC+. Anybody heard anything good or bad about it (kinda late to ask)? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 17 Thu May 08, 1986 JOHNCRANE [MacNews] at 19:25 EDT I don't think a 400K disk formated on a Mac+ being unreadable on a 512 is "normal" but it is not uncommon. A number of people have complained about it. As these things usually go, you only hear the bad side and not the other - anyone _not_ having trouble with Mac+ disks being read on 512s? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 18 Thu May 08, 1986 A.INDA [Anne] at 18:12 PDT I'd like to know if disks created on a Mac+ can be read on a Lisa. I just gave away a copy of TermWorks, but neither the recipient nor I could figure out if it would even be readable. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 19 Thu May 08, 1986 FBARTON [Bart] at 21:26 EDT OK, here's the story as I've heard it. On approximately 85% of the Mac Plus's, if you format a 400K single sided diskette, it will not be readable by a "straight" 512K Mac. No excuse why yet, but I have experienced this in making backup systems disks for new buyers (before they figure out why they should have in the first place>. So here we have an existing, but so far unexplained incompatibility!! .... Bart ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 20 Thu May 08, 1986 FBARTON [Bart] at 21:31 EDT Oh, forgot to mention it, but I presume the same problem will exist with a 400K disk which has been formatted on an Enhanced Mac, too. (Ain't I just full of good news???) (No smart remarks, Anne/Christine, et al!) hehehe ...... Bart ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 21 Thu May 08, 1986 A.INDA [Anne] at 21:49 PDT Does that mean I can't tell them you're full of something else, too? OK, I won't. Besides, I'm sure everyone here already knows it. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 22 Fri May 09, 1986 PRICECOLLINS at 22:59 EDT I put this in another topic, but I suspect it bears repeating: 400k copies made on a Plus using CE Software's Mass Copier or COPY II Mac (at least up to 5.0) can't be read on a 512k. Finder copies are fine. The problem really shows up because the bad 400k disk can nonetheless be read on the Plus. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 23 Sat May 24, 1986 DWOROURKE at 00:36 CDT Has anyone been unable to eject an 800k Internal disk? I got caught in an endless loop and when I tried to eject the disk manually(using the small access hole) I couldn't get the thing out. I was using a Mac with the disk drive upgrade so naturally I thought they had installed It in- correctly. I then tried to eject a disk manually on a brand new Mac+ and ran into the same problem. What gives? I sure hope I'm doing something wrong. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 24 Sat May 24, 1986 C.BLACKSTONE [Craig] at 00:57 CDT You're not doing anything wrong! The new drives' eject mechanism is activated by pushing the paperclip further into the drive than the old drive required (don't force it!). You may have to straighten your paperclip to do this. Craig ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 25 Fri May 23, 1986 A.INDA [Anne] at 23:46 PDT I had a disk get stuck in the EXTERNAL drive recently; I think the little slide was jammed open. I shut the Mac off and waited. Reboot freed it up. But those suckers require a lot of muscle compared to the old ones. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 26 Sat May 24, 1986 DWOROURKE at 22:43 CDT Gee I feel like I'm allready putting too much pressure on the darn thing. I was using a jeweler's screwdriver.Gets in as far as you want. Oh well, thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one having trouble. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 27 Sat May 24, 1986 JFISCHER [Jeff F.] at 21:33 PDT I've got two questions re: the new disks & HFS: 1. What is the real story on the Single-Sided initialized as Double-Sided issue? There are so many conflicting stories! If it is true that the Mac reads one side of the 3 1/2 disk, and the other major user (HP?) reads the _other_ side (I'm here talking about the 400K drive Mac), Sony (or whoever) can't know which machine their disks will be used in, so they have to certify _both_ sides, right? There's a comment in this month's MacWorld by one of their gurus saying that "all disks are tested on both sides. Those that pass are labeled double-sided, those that don't are single-sided." That's stupid! I mean, if a disk fails on one side, WHICH SIDE FAILED?! They couldn't even release the disk as certified single-sided if the side your computer was going to read failed, right? 2. Are there any disk labeling programs that work with HFS? (Who said I can't be succinct?) ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 28 Sat May 24, 1986 RSPARGO [Bob] at 23:49 CDT I just re-initialized over 40 SS disks to double sided. Only one had a problem and it wouldn't even re-init single sided. These were all Apple or Sony disks. I've got some Memorex's but I don't trust them SS so I'm not going to try them DS. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 29 Sat May 24, 1986 A.INDA [Anne] at 22:55 PDT Jeff, in order: I agree with Bob. I've had only one SS disk fail initial- ization as double-sided, and I used that to pass along some information to a 512 owner. I, too, have heard the story about the-ones-that-fail- are-SS...and your comment makes sense. As long as SS disks are cheaper and initialize just as well, I'll keep buying them. (Of course, by now I hope that you've learned to back up EVERYTHING!) On number two, all I can tell you is MacLabeler WON'T. Most catalogging programs I've found don't work either, except the one here from OITC... (I think it's File 1139, but I could be wrong). That one gives me too much information, but it's a nice format. If you find a labeler that's HFS compatible, would you let me know too? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 30 Sun May 25, 1986 JOHNCRANE [MacNews] at 20:28 EDT 1. Experts categorically state that if a SS disk will format as a DS disk, you got nothing to worry about. 2. Experts categorically state that if you use a SS disk as DS you're inviting disaster. 3. Take your pick. - John ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 31 Sun May 25, 1986 A.INDA [Anne] at 22:59 PDT I pick #2. And make backups. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 32 Mon May 26, 1986 JACKSANDERS at 11:09 PDT Strangely, I have made SS disks un-initializable by trying to format them DS. This effect is totally unpredictable. I will try even a nice Sony SS disk, and then get a can't initialize message when I try to do it DS on my Mac+. Then I say, okay, I'll go back to SS 400K. At this point the machine may not be able to do SS either. But if I try again, it may decide to do it. I have not noticed that the inter- nal or external drives work any differently. All my DS disks work just fine, of course. I have a solution, though. I just keep all the 400K disks as SS. After realizing that I have to trade disks and files with friends, I decided that I really needed some SS disks anyway. My friends can't handle DS yet. One friend can't even read the SS disks I am making, though I have no idea why this is! ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 33 Mon May 26, 1986 CORENZWIT [Dan] at 16:29 EDT One program which will make HFS disk labels is Mac Disk Catalog II from New Canaan Microcode. The latest version (I have 2.1.1) will not only handle HFS properly on IW labels, it will also print the image of a label on the Laserwriter (you can then cut it out and stick on yourself). ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 34 Mon May 26, 1986 A.INDA [Anne] at 17:05 PDT 1. What if I don't have a laserwriter? 2. What if I don't want to stick it on myself, but on the disk? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 35 Mon May 26, 1986 CWYKOFF [Christine] at 19:02 PDT Anne--> A glue stick works great... no matter where you want to st..er... put the label. It also works on the stupid Maxell labels that don't have any 'stick-um' worth mentioning! OK... now... I want to know what kinds of SOUNDS everyone's 800K drives are making..... my are putting out some interesting ones, and I don't want to drag my Mac to the dealer if I don't have to. The drives are USUALLY pretty quiet, but every now and then will 'buzz' and 'hum.' What is it? I had a problem with 400K disks squeaking too, solved that by not using 400K disks initialized as 800K. Anyone have any input? Thanks-- Christine ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 36 Mon May 26, 1986 JOHNCRANE [MacNews] at 22:10 EDT My 800K drive goes "thump thump thump...." No buzz or hum. And no difference between 400K and 800K disks, or between SS and DS. - John ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 37 Tue May 27, 1986 CORENZWIT [Dan] at 00:35 EDT Ha ha, Anne, that was good. A gluestick is what I use, and the labels print out on an IW too. The program will also print on pin fed labels in an IW, and it prints across what will be the edge of the disk once the label is "stuck on". ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 38 Mon May 26, 1986 CWYKOFF [Christine] at 22:45 PDT John--> I'm REALLY getting some vibrations... I have the sinking feeling (and I feel like a rat) that a trip to the dealer is nec... ugh!! Christine ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 39 Tue May 27, 1986 JOHNCRANE [MacNews] at 19:17 EDT If you're under warrentee, you certainly should. If not, I think I would pay more attention to whether it's handling data okay. - John ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 40 Wed May 28, 1986 CWYKOFF [Christine] at 22:11 PDT No it's under the warrenty... I just don't want to have to go down there again. <sigh> Christine ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 41 Fri May 30, 1986 JACKSANDERS at 00:21 PDT Christine-- I think you are right to listen to the disk drive and draw some conclusions from the sound. I have tried to reformat 400K disks with some luck, but the ones having trouble made funny sounds, often seeming to have trouble with the correct speed of rotation. I am listening to the disks, trying to learn something. So far, not enough to really report. I do note that some of my cheap old 400K disks sound pretty bad. I have relegated them to backups, and definitely would not try to go 800K on them. So far the disks that would not reformat to 800K and then were found to be _ruined_ by the attempt: one Verbatim, one Sony. I guess it's true again: the good die young. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 42 Fri May 30, 1986 JLMAST [INTREPID] at 22:29 EDT My Opinion (Warning) Do not use Single-Sided certified disks, for Double-Sided use. Doing this will cause degeneration in the non-certified disks, leading to definite danger of loss of data. -Jerry- ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 43 Fri May 30, 1986 CWYKOFF [Christine] at 21:41 PDT Well, I've got enuff double-sided disks to see me thru a while. The discussion of using single-sided disks as double-sided is obviously one that isn't over. I know that the opinions and reasons for those opinions are REALLY varied... some people have horror stories... some people have no problems at all. The SAFEST thing to do is to only use the double- sided disks for the 800K drives... but then the $$ factor comes to play. Well, I'm sure there will be more input on this.... Christine ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 44 Sat May 31, 1986 C.BLACKSTONE [Craig] at 00:00 CDT I've only formatted one 400K disk as 800K, and it was fine. If what people here have said about the whole issue of which side to certify is true, than I think we are safe. Craig ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 45 Fri May 30, 1986 JFISCHER [Jeff F.] at 22:52 PDT Chris: I, too, have my share of "squeakers". I own about 60-70 disks all told, and I think one or two of those are DS, the rest SS and most of those formatted two-sided. So I can't tell if the squeaking is related to SS formatted as DS due to a lack of DS disks. I'd say probably 30% of my disks squeak, some quite loudly. To all others: I still haven't heard an answer as to what is really the difference between SS and DS, other than the name. If you folks that are using DS disks have no "squeaking" problems, that would be reason enough for me to switch over. But still, if single-sided Mac drives read the top of a 3.5" disk, and HP drives read the bottom (or vice versa), and the disks are sold to be used in both machines, they have to be double- sided. Can someone answer this riddle (I feel like the Sphinx)? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 46 Sat May 31, 1986 CWYKOFF [Christine] at 09:47 PDT Well, the one REALLY bad squeaker is being used to protect the 800K drive heads when I transport my Mac. I figure I needed a 'trash' disk anyway. I haven't had ANY problems with the double-sided disks and squeaking... and my dealer says that many other users have the same problems with the 400K disks. I'm NOT going to use 400K as 800K unless I really get REALLY desperate! I still have a 400K external drive anyway... so I do use the 400K disks. I still have to take the MAc in tho... the 800K drive IS making strange noises... and the warrenty is still good... I'm going to get my money's worth! Christine ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 47 Sat May 31, 1986 JLMAST [INTREPID] at 22:08 EDT Christine, first you should be using the Yellow shipping disk that came with the drive to transport the mac. Second, the 400K drives(Single-Sided) read the bottom of the disk, the 800K(Double-sided) read both sides. The squeak is due to the polishing done on the disks, some certified single-sided disks were not polished on the top, inducing the squeak. These squeaky disks, should not be used as 800K disks(Double sided), UNLESS they are certified double sided. If your certified Double-sided disks are squeaking, get that drive exchanged RIGHT away, that is a sign that the upper read/write head is loose, and it will get worse. So bad as the head will break off!!!!!!!!!! . -Jerry Mast- ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 48 Sun Jun 01, 1986 JFISCHER [Jeff F.] at 00:05 PDT Jerry: Your comment "The squeak is due to the polishing done on the disks, some certified single-sided disks were not polished on the top, inducing the squeak." intrigues me, as self-proclaimed devil's advocate to the "you gotta use DS disks in the 800K drives" community. All my disks are Sonys. 98% of my disks are SS. Many of these are now formatted DS. None of them squeaked in the 400K drive. Some of them squeak in the 800K drive. Some of the "squeakers" are formatted DS, some of them are formatted SS. There is quite a bit of variation between the loudest "squeaker" and the softest. Now, are you saying that some of my Sonys aren't polished on the top and some are? Is this a difference one could check visually? Also, were some polished a little bit on the top and some alot? If not, why the variance in the fierceness of the squeak? Finally, it is my understanding that nothing actually touches the surface (either surface) of a disk. To do so would ruin it (so I've been told). If this is true, what could the state of the polish on either surface have to do with a squeak? I was told (and I even believe this is an Apple claim, but I could be wrong) that one needn't worry in the slightest about putting a SS disk (formatted one side, of course) in the 800K drive--it would treat it just like it was a 400K drive. Surely they would have said something about those "unpolished on the other side" 400K disks that would _not_ be ok to use. Whew! Looking down from the top of this mountain, I see a few angry moles eying me, so I'd better stop now. I really don't have an axe to grind, and I sincerely hope you have some answers to my questions. So far, though, I'm still not satisfied with the explanations given for why the current SS disks are not really DS disks already. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 49 Sun Jun 01, 1986 CWYKOFF [Christine] at 10:57 PDT Jerry, I'm NOT using the the 'shipping disk' that came with the 800K drive because I never got one! Before you say that the dealer is messing up... let me tell you what I was told by an Apple employee. Supposedly, the yellow 'shipping disk' that is supposed to be inserted in the 800K drive during transportation has a problem. The 'shipping disk' must be inserted in the drive the 'right' way. Some users, after inserting the shipping disk UPSIDEDOWN have not been able to get the disk out again. The Mac had to be taken to the dealer and opened up to remove it. The problem is that it is difficult to tell which side is the RIGHT side of the shipping disk. I'm not sure if Apple is reccommending to dealers that they do NOT give out the 'shipping disk,' but being aware of the problem.. I didn't ask. So... the consensus is... don't use the shipping disk... put in a cheap single or double sided disk to protect the drive heads... then you won't have to worry about accidently inserting the 'shipping disk' inncorrectly. Any comments from others on this? Anybody have the same problems? Any dealers out there who can report any guidance form Apple on this? Christine PS... The Mac goes in next week.. thank goodness for warrenties! ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 50 Sun Jun 01, 1986 FBARTON [Bart] at 15:42 EDT Christine, that could be partially correct since it is possible to insert the shipping disk upside down and jamming it in the drive. The other reason your dealer kept the shipping disk is that there is a _$50.00_ charge by Apple back to the dealer when an 800K drive is shipped back to Apple without the shipping disk!! I'm not sure the shipping disk is all that necessary if you're using the Apple or a third party carrying case, but if being shipped via UPS, etc., you sure as heck need something in the disk drive! So while a dealer may like to have it appear they are saving the customer the grief of mistakingly inserting the shipping disk upside down, I have the feeling the economics of shipping an 800K disk back to Apple without the shipping disk may be "closer" to their "heart"/wallet..... ..... Bart ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 51 Sun Jun 01, 1986 CWYKOFF [Christine] at 21:16 PDT Well, since it looks like they will be sending the 800K drive I have right now back.. I won't begrudge it. Doesn't really make much of a difference to me WHAT I use... a trash disk is fine. Christine ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 52 Mon Jun 02, 1986 JOHNCRANE [MacNews] at 00:19 EDT Jeff, regarding your above message about your dissatisfaction with the explainations why the current SS disks are not really DS disks already ---- I couldn't have said it better. (actually, I couldn't have said it as well). - John ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 53 Mon Jun 02, 1986 JKRAMER [Jeff] at 04:41 EDT As far as I know SS disks are the same as DS disks except for one thing. The manufacturer did not test the reverse side of a SS disk, therefore they are not guaranteed. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 54 Mon Jun 02, 1986 CMUG [Brian Ebarb] at 16:50 EDT Didn't he tho? Since H-P uses the opposite side of the disk compared to the Mac, didn't the manufacturer HAVE to test the flipside? heh,heh! Sheer speculation for the heck of it! ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 55 Mon Jun 02, 1986 CWYKOFF [Christine] at 18:06 PDT We are SURE of this... I know nothing about HPs. Christine ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 56 Tue Jun 03, 1986 DANPIETTE [dan] at 07:24 CDT Brian, are you SURE that the HP uses the opposite side? If so, you're right, there has to be no difference unless they sell machine specific floppies. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 57 Tue Jun 03, 1986 CMUG [Brian Ebarb] at 13:24 EDT I looked at a damaged drive out of an H-P, and it used at LEAST the top side.. Since there was a disk jammed into the drive, I couldn't see whether or not the drive was doublesided. - Brian ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 58 Tue Jun 03, 1986 PIETTENET [Chas] at 21:40 CDT I've DS formatted many SS disks (all Sony) and all work. Some old Apple SS'ers failed to format. Th were over 2 years old so maybe age was the problem. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 59 Tue Jun 03, 1986 FBARTON [Bart] at 22:50 EDT Brian, et al, to my knowledge HP advertised the drive as a 720Kbyte drive, which indicates to me it is/was double sided. All the 3.5" diskettes I have seen with HP's label on them were marked double sided. Hmmmmm.... ..... Bart ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 60 Wed Jun 04, 1986 PIETTENET [Chas] at 19:53 CDT My HP disks are marked Single Sided. They also had those little hooks that jammed 800k disk drives. I bought them in Feb 1985. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 61 Wed Jun 04, 1986 CWYKOFF [Christine] at 20:36 PDT Well... took my Enhanced Mac to a users group meeting. The consensus of all the other 800K drive users is that my drives are fine. The buzzing is normal... and mine isn't as loud as some others. At least it saved me a trip to the dealers. Ugh.... I might've been without my Mac for a 24 hr period!!! Argh!! Mac-withdrawl!!! Phew... Christine ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 62 Thu Jul 24, 1986 JEFFHOOVER [JEF] at 03:45 EDT I'll be brief, and to the point. Do you want to buy my external 400k single sided drive? I work at a store where I can get a new external at a good price. Leave me mail. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 64 Thu Jul 31, 1986 RBUTCHER [RON] at 23:21 CDT The actual magnetic media (Iron Oxide homologs, whatever) are on both sides of the disk for 400K and 800K; the major difference being, the manufacturer verifies the integrity of the second side of an 800K disk. Then they can guarantee in writing. Most manufacturers have quality products to begin with, and a majority of the time a 400K disk can be used as 800K. Then again, the first time you lose data, its $#%@&*. I have yet to have any trouble with 400K's formatted 800K. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 65 Fri Aug 01, 1986 PDARIUS [Pegasus] at 00:38 PDT Jerry, Ron speaks the truth....that you can indeed use 400k disks for 800k; My experience is that one in 10 will not format because it indeed has not been verified...recommend that you always have a backup if you are going to go this route. If you will examine the disk you will answer your own question regarding the flip side and similarity between these and 5 1/4 inch disks. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 66 Fri Aug 01, 1986 JOHNCRANE [MacNews] at 19:01 EDT However, jsut because a SS disk will initialize as DS does not mean it's safe. I've initialized a lot of SS as DS (mostly Sony) but have had one later refuse to open (a Sony) My feeling is to freely use SS for stuff that is well backed up or not important, but use DS otherwise. - John Crane MacNews ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 68 Fri Aug 01, 1986 PDARIUS [Pegasus] at 19:10 PDT Concur, John. I've had them fail, both during init and during use later....after init....there is no worse sinking feeling than losing data that is not backed up especially when you need it right now. Its approved DS disks for me when working on the important stuff. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 69 Fri Aug 01, 1986 A.INDA [Anne] at 22:31 PDT I've been using SS disks as DS for QUITE a while with no problems. I had one fail to format as DS initially; other than that the only data I've lost has (have?) been through "Pilot Error." I'll keep using SS -- with an occasional batch of DS I pick up at a flea market for cheap! ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 70 Sat Aug 02, 1986 JFISCHER [Jeff F.] at 10:05 PDT Can anyone answer my riddle yet? (It's not a true riddle, I suppose, since I don't know the answer myself.) If HP computers use the top of a SS 3.5" disk, and Macs use the bottom, how can there be any such thing as a SS disk? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 71 Sat Aug 02, 1986 A.INDA [Anne] at 18:40 PDT It's a little-known secret, but what they do is this: they crack open half of the disk, give it a half-twist, and glue it back together. Voila'! A Moebus disk! ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 72 Sat Aug 09, 1986 MGSOUTH [Mike] at 15:08 PDT Heard that a new Apple project, code-named "Ahab", is going to use Moebus disks. (Get it? "Ahab"--"Moby Disk"? Never mind...) ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 73 Sat Aug 09, 1986 FBARTON [Bart] at 19:00 EDT ? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 74 Sat Aug 09, 1986 CWYKOFF [Christine] at 19:49 PDT Mike--> Even if Bart didn't get it, *I* did! I'll say what I'm sure he WOULD'VE said. "UGH!!!!!!!" Christine ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 75 Sun Aug 10, 1986 FBARTON [Bart] at 02:06 EDT I "got it" but just couldn't come up with an appropriate response... ?? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 76 Sun Aug 10, 1986 CMUG [Brian Ebarb] at 09:54 EDT Gimme a gun.. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 77 Sun Aug 10, 1986 PRICECOLLINS at 21:02 EDT The new Moebius disk is one sided. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 78 Fri Aug 15, 1986 DANPIETTE [dan] at 19:24 CDT and I bet you drink out of a Klein bottle. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 79 Fri Aug 15, 1986 JFISCHER [Jeff F.] at 20:22 PDT Which side of the Klein bottle does he drink out of? (Or, would it be into?) ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 80 Sat Aug 16, 1986 PRICECOLLINS at 18:15 EDT Klein bottles are only found nowadays in Greenwich Village sex shops for sale to perverts; I don't want to think what they may do with them. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 81 Mon Oct 06, 1986 J.HILL at 21:50 CDT What 800Kb drive should I buy? There are a bunch of non-Apple drives, do I dare buy one. They're cheaper, but do they work as well? I have seen an ad for a Maple Technology MT-3002 for $179. Now that's cheap! But it makes me nervous. I never heard of Maple Technology before. Anybody out there got one? How 'bout a Haba or a MicroTech or a Mirror Technologies? Do they all have autoeject? Help! ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 82 Tue Oct 07, 1986 DSACHS at 21:41 CDT The Apple 800K drives are faster because they have a built-in speed control so that time is not lost checking for the drive coming up to speed and tweaking the spped control bytes in RAM. I do not think that any of the non-Apple drives have this feature. By the way only Apple drives will work with HFS when you have the old ROMs. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 83 Wed Oct 08, 1986 J.HILL at 18:32 CDT Well, I have the new ROMs. My next question is... How much faster are the Apple 800Kb drives than the others? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 84 Sat Oct 11, 1986 CSF [Chris] at 17:51 PDT Much. They're worth every penny. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 85 Wed Oct 15, 1986 B.HUKEE at 20:11 PDT Hey, has anyone tried the Warp 9 800K external drive? I just ordered one since the price dropped to $199. It also got good press in Nov MacWorld. Leave mail please. Hook ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 86 Sun Nov 23, 1986 J.BEATON [J.BEATON] at 22:25 PST I have a problem with my internal double sided drive. It appears that a disk may have snagged the upper head mounting plate, rendering the drive useless. My local Apple dealer will only replace drives (big bucks). Does anyone know where I can purchase parts for the Sony drive? If that is not possible, where can I buy a drive at less than suggested retail? JOHN ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 87 Mon Nov 24, 1986 FBARTON [Bart] at 01:33 EST John, I think you're going to have problems finding either parts for the Sony drives or another manufacturer of a drive identical to it. To my knowledge, none of the other micro manufacturer's are using the variable speed type drives such as what the Mac uses. Thin Apple has darn near a captive market on this one!! ..... Bart ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 88 Mon Nov 24, 1986 TOMMACKIE at 03:01 EST Your only choice is to replace the drive. HOWEVER, since this problem has happened to 1 out of xxx Sony drives, you _may_ be able to get Apple to replace it. I suggest you get your dealer to get on the horn to Apple and/or (having fixed a large pot of coffee) call Apple yourself. BTW, I'm _not_ saying there is an Apple policy on this "problem" - just that there is an awareness that a problem exists. ---Tom/PMUG ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 89 Tue Nov 25, 1986 A.INDA [Anne] at 18:40 PST Better make that a large pot of espresso. It took 10 rings just for some guy's ANSWERING MACHINE to pick up the other day. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 90 Tue Nov 25, 1986 CSF [Chris] at 20:51 PST This really is somewhat frustrating. There is definitely a problem with many 800K drives (mine only acts up with single sided BASF disks), and jams frequently. Dealers all say Apple doesn't acknowledge that there's a problem. Would like to hear any info to the contrary. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 91 Tue Nov 25, 1986 J.BEATON [J.BEATON] at 23:51 PST Thank's for the suggestions. It looks like I will have to talk to Apple directly. My local dealers can only swap the drive (for $150-180 plus labor). Even if I were to obtain the necessary parts, my dealers could not align the head. Does anyone have a number for Apple's service department? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 92 Wed Nov 26, 1986 TOMMACKIE at 04:23 EST Oooops! Didn't know you were using BASF disks, Chris! I suggest you donate all those to a worthy cause, such as Mayor Koch's pooper-scooper campaign. I've had trouble with every make of disk _except_ Sony. (But before 1,000 people jump on me here, I suggest all interested in this question direct your queries to BMUG, since they've been running disk tests for a couple of years now, and have far better statistics than my meager personal experience.) ---Tom/PMUG ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 93 Wed Nov 26, 1986 DANPIETTE [dan] at 06:45 CST To change the subject a bit... Has anyone thought of having a daisy chained external floppy drive, so one wouldn't have to throw away an old 400k drive when you want to upgrade to a 800k? I certainly would buy one--- dan. (Whatch out for those OLD hp disks in the 800 k drive by the way) ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 94 Wed Nov 26, 1986 A.INDA [Anne] at 19:00 PST I use Maxell and Sony disks exclusively. They all seem to do well. BASFs are the bad guys, huh? Any others? ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 95 Wed Nov 26, 1986 RBUTCHER [RON] at 21:31 CST From my experience, I've only had two diskette failures in two years of repetitive use of various brands (3M, Maxell, Sony, Fuji, TDK) Both were 3M disks. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 96 Fri Nov 28, 1986 TOMMACKIE at 22:06 EST Ron, I wasn't necessarily talking about r/w failures - some disks are just plain NOISEY... as if there were a small piece of sandpaper attached to the disk. NB to all: 3M single sided disks are made in USA; dbl sided are made in Japan. ---Tom/PMUG ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 97 Fri Nov 28, 1986 CSF [Chris] at 20:29 PST Actually, haven't used BASF for about a year, they used to stock them in the department. Purchase agreement, you know. They gave no real trouble except for a horrible scraping sound until the 800K drives came along. They do make nice coasters though. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 98 Sat Nov 29, 1986 MUSICUS at 02:55 EST I bought a Warp 9 800K external disk, and so far have had absolutely no trouble. It's a little noisier and slower than the internal Apple drive, however. It has a rather nice manual eject button, but I've never had to use it (except for fun). I'm curious about other people's experience with other 800K drives? -- bruce musicus ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 99 Sat Nov 29, 1986 RBUTCHER [RON] at 23:30 CST Tom: With regards to noise.. I just acquired a DataSpace DS800 800K external drive and it's great. The noise level varies; it is sometimes louder, and sometimes quieter than my Apple 800K internal, depending on the disk used. The noise level in the internal drive seems to be more consistent, disk to disk. When that DataSpace has a good disk, though, it really purrs. Since I'm waiting for a hard disk, the $199 I paid for the DataSpace will help me out for a while. DataSpace also has a one year warranty on their drives. I haven't run any speed tests yet, but if it's sloswer than the internal, it's imperceptible. I'll have to clock it. Once again, noise level seems to be disk dependent. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 100 Sun Nov 30, 1986 DADADATA-COD ["craig"] at 11:56 CST I am happy with my 2 Meg DASCH from Western Automation. It plugs into the printer or modem port (you need adaptor with Mac+, becuase its cable ends in the Fat Mac style printer-modem connector). It doesn't crash if your Mac does - it has a very fast Start program if you haven't turned it off, plus a smart-Backup utility. It really eases the pain of using things like PageMaker and Excel, especially when saving big files. Best of all, I use 1500K as a RAMdrive and 500K as a print BUFFER!!! Works great, especially with graphics and draft mode. "Faster" is helped, too, and "Best" isn't helped much at all. It costs about $399 mail order. Check ads for who's got it. Considering you get a silent drive/print buffer it should be considered by those going for a second drive. I have it and a PKI 800K (which I paid $320 for about a year ago). So it was a _real_ bargain before prices got to $200 on the externals. If you need RAM speed sans hard disk size and hassle, check it out. Western Automation's in Boulder: 303-449-6400, ask for Bob Cone. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 102 Mon Dec 01, 1986 P.S.HARING [Birdman] at 20:03 EST Getting back to floppies for a second, I find that Sony and NASHU disks work just fine, BUT stay away from Verbatim. Aren't Apple disks made by BASF (they look the same anyway)? BTW, the jamming problem is most likely due to the label curling up and catching inside the drive. I've stopped using the provided labels all together and switched to 3M's Post-It "Cover-Up Tape". Its a roll of 1 inch wide paper tape backed with the same glue used on Post-It Notes (those little yellow pads). Tear off a piece and stick it on a clean disk. It's easy to write on and erase, and its edges stay glued down. When it gets grubby I just peel it off and it lifts away without a trace of residue. The 700" roll costs about $4, but it should provide about 350 labels. -- PSH -- ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 103 Tue Dec 02, 1986 TOMMACKIE at 07:35 EST No, Apple disks are not made by BASF - they're made by Sony. I don't know who's making Nasua disks these days; they've used several different mfgs over the year's. BTW, Sony disks are quite easy to spot if you know what to look for - things like both sides of the plastic having the same molding machine #, and the hub ring having a sandblasted surface. --->Tom/PMUG ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 104 Tue Dec 02, 1986 CSF [Chris] at 23:07 PST Although labels will jam the disks, my problem and many others were caused by slightly out of alignment locking arm that pops into the hole to hold the disk in, then won't release. ---------- Category 7, Topic 3 Message 105 Thu Dec 04, 1986 TOMMACKIE at 03:22 EST Or a slightly out of alignment hole? Hmmmmm.... --->Tom/PMUG ---------- end of file